Thanks for the deep dive and attempt at looking at this issue from a number of different perspectives, very engaging.
Since you're on a Steiner vibe at the moment Matt, I always come back to these quotes that I highlighted ten years ago when first encountering his work, from The book 'The Influences of Lucifer and Ahriman' human responsibility for the earth.
"As soon as Ahriman incarnates at the destined time in the West, the whole of culture would be impregnated with his forces. What else would come in his train? Through certain stupendous acts he would bring to humanity all the clairvoyant knowledge which until then can be acquired only by dint of intense labour and effort."
"When Ahriman incarnates in the West at the appointed time, he would establish a great occult school for the practice of magic arts of the greatest grandeur and what otherwise can be acquired only by strenuous effort would be poured over humankind..........for by means of these stupendous magic arts he would be able to make great numbers of human beings into seers- but in such a way that the clairvoyance of each individual would be strictly differentiated."
and the final kicker
"Let it not be thought that wisdom can be attained through blissful visions. Real wisdom has to be acquired "in travail and suffering" Steiner himself putting those four words in scare quotes!
His greater point in this chapter is that Lucifer works in concert with Ahriman to achieve these aims. I can't help but associate the rennaisance in psychedelics with these magical arts.
My take on the suffering of which you mentioned and is a very real phenomenon, is explained in some traditions by karma, and a Christian esoteric tradition and ethos which takes this into account (anthroposophy, christian hermeticism) has to surely sit alongside this knowledge yet still be with the suffering of others within its immanent unfoldment.
I guess the question then becomes at what point do we use the pharmacological tool kit we have been given to ease these intense searing pains of head heart and body?? Part of the reason for your dialogue I guess.
With the spirit of Steiner and Tomberg, Rogers and Jung, Winnicott and Whitehead, Jesus Christ and Sophia I stumble through the thickets of these times with your integrity and curiousity also guiding my way...........
Thanks for these interesting connections! There are certainly dangers like this associated with psychedelic use. I also think that some of the most transformative outcomes can result from psychedelic experiences that are full of suffering and travail.
Thanks for the deep dive and attempt at looking at this issue from a number of different perspectives, very engaging.
Since you're on a Steiner vibe at the moment Matt, I always come back to these quotes that I highlighted ten years ago when first encountering his work, from The book 'The Influences of Lucifer and Ahriman' human responsibility for the earth.
"As soon as Ahriman incarnates at the destined time in the West, the whole of culture would be impregnated with his forces. What else would come in his train? Through certain stupendous acts he would bring to humanity all the clairvoyant knowledge which until then can be acquired only by dint of intense labour and effort."
"When Ahriman incarnates in the West at the appointed time, he would establish a great occult school for the practice of magic arts of the greatest grandeur and what otherwise can be acquired only by strenuous effort would be poured over humankind..........for by means of these stupendous magic arts he would be able to make great numbers of human beings into seers- but in such a way that the clairvoyance of each individual would be strictly differentiated."
and the final kicker
"Let it not be thought that wisdom can be attained through blissful visions. Real wisdom has to be acquired "in travail and suffering" Steiner himself putting those four words in scare quotes!
His greater point in this chapter is that Lucifer works in concert with Ahriman to achieve these aims. I can't help but associate the rennaisance in psychedelics with these magical arts.
My take on the suffering of which you mentioned and is a very real phenomenon, is explained in some traditions by karma, and a Christian esoteric tradition and ethos which takes this into account (anthroposophy, christian hermeticism) has to surely sit alongside this knowledge yet still be with the suffering of others within its immanent unfoldment.
I guess the question then becomes at what point do we use the pharmacological tool kit we have been given to ease these intense searing pains of head heart and body?? Part of the reason for your dialogue I guess.
With the spirit of Steiner and Tomberg, Rogers and Jung, Winnicott and Whitehead, Jesus Christ and Sophia I stumble through the thickets of these times with your integrity and curiousity also guiding my way...........
Keep it going
Blessings
Thanks for these interesting connections! There are certainly dangers like this associated with psychedelic use. I also think that some of the most transformative outcomes can result from psychedelic experiences that are full of suffering and travail.